In the sales game, it’s easy to become trapped by the inertia of what worked. We become resistant to new ideas and approaches that would upend our established ways. And that is why Jeff Fotta and his company Gryphon Networks are such a disruptive force in the world of sales.
Gryphon’s cloud-based technology collects and analyzes call data, creating sales intelligence that didn’t exist previously. Today, over 600 companies, including Fortune 500 banks, brokerages, healthcare organizations and insurance firms, use Gryphon’s software. Jeff was instrumental in the company’s initial client sales and early development efforts.
Today, as President and CEO of Gryphon, Jeff is pushing sales leaders to question their assumptions and reinvent their game. He is a proponent of ‘Moneyball-style management,’ the data-driven approach made famous by Michael Lewis’s book about the Oakland Athletics and its manager Billy Beane. If you’re ready to grow beyond your sales comfort zone, Jeff has ideas for you:
Jayna Cooke: Jeff, tell us about your approach to sales. What makes your perspective and strategy different?
Jeff Fotta: People have said that selling is a numbers game, but there’s more to it than dialing 150 numbers a day. You have to determine what actually works. For example, most companies waste expensive leads. Their salespeople make 150 calls but only call each number once. They’d get very different results if they called the same number multiple times. With Fortune 100 companies, we’ve found that the sweet spot is to make eight calls before tossing the lead. That’s the difference in my approach – I believe that data, not assumptions, should drive sales strategy.
For a sales manager, the best indication of what to expect from sales reps in the future can be found in analyzing their history. By applying good judgment to the historical performance data, a manager can establish a realistic, activity-centric standard of performance.
Jayna: You’ve talked about Moneyball-style sales management in your column. What does that mean and what does it look like?
Jeff: Traditional sales leaders with distributed teams will get on the phone with their sellers and ask, “What does your pipeline look like?” or “What do you have closing this month?” Typically, that data is overly optimistic and possibly inaccurate. But when you are able to automatically collect data from thousands of reps all the time from anywhere they are calling, you can see what the pipeline actually looks like by focusing on the activity that predicts the pipeline. You identify who’s successful (and who needs coaching) and why. You will see if new hires are just afraid of the phone or having other issues that you can address and fix before they become bigger problems.
Jayna: What do you look for in new salespeople?
Jeff: I look for trainability. That’s the big one. I need people who are outgoing and unafraid to pick up the phone, but they must be willing to listen and learn too.
Frankly, I want people who spend less time talking and more time listening. They can’t just drive down the script! They have to identify and solve the customer’s problems. During interviews, I ask a lot of questions and see how candidates carry on a conversation. I ask myself, “Is this a person I’d want to buy from?”
I also look for adaptability. These days, the most successful new hires and even senior reps are the ones that aren’t paralyzed by change; they find a way to adapt and capitalize on it. In today’s market, the only thing you can be certain of is change, so you can’t be afraid of it if you want to win. You need to thrive on it.
Jayna: Why is there high turnover in sales? How do you address it?
Jeff: A lot of people think they’re great salespeople, but they aren’t. Just because you have the gift of gab, it doesn’t mean that you will be successful selling. The best salespeople I have met turn selling into a form of art: part psychologist, part philosopher, politician, businessperson. Sales’ reputation has always suffered because of the weakest practitioners.
But as a sales manager, you have to be able to measure and communicate the activity that drives success to your reps. If you bring in new people, and you let them flounder and don’t look at their activity or let them know how they perform against their peers, you’re not doing them any favors. There are always people who are good at selling a particular product. You have to first understand and then replicate what these great sellers do and pass that knowledge to new hires, otherwise they’ll struggle then fail, and you will get high turnover. I see this all the time. Many insurance companies continually hire and train people who fail in six months. It’s a huge cost.
Jayna: So how do you replicate your best sellers?
Jeff: Look at the activity of people who are successful. How many calls do they make per day? What’s the average length of each call? Are they setting one appointment out of 100 calls or 50? And why? What are their differentiators, habits and techniques? You can even analyze their tone and emotion and train people to emulate them. How do they handle objections, ask for referrals, confirm appointments…?
Jayna: What is the most underestimated sales data? How should sales leaders use it?
Jeff: The most underestimated sales data is probably the data you don’t have or think you don’t need. For most businesses, tracking the activity of out-of-office salespeople is impossible. Years ago at a different company, I hired a field sales rep who had a second fulltime job. It took us three years to figure this out. If you have reps out in distant cities, you don’t really know what they’re up to unless you have tools that give you a view in.
Today, you are two clicks away from every detail of every call from every possible device, including the audio call itself. In 2016 and beyond, the smart money is on the companies and managers that use that information to make better decisions and drive effectiveness.
Jayna: You’re known as an active founder and investor in the venture capital community. When you evaluate startups, what do you look for in their sales organizations?
Jeff: I look for an accomplished sales leader. It’s always about the people behind the product. I would rather have a crappy product with a great team than the reverse. In particular, I look for a sales leader who has handled a new product launch. People don’t understand new, disruptive products. It’s very hard to educate the public. It’s quite different to sell a new way of doing things than to sell cheaper-better-faster. The selling process is longer and it requires a confident steady approach that many good sales reps struggle with.
Jayna: What were some of your biggest ‘sales fails’? What did you learn?
Jeff: I started my sales career as a cold caller at a stock brokerage. I used to power through sales and wouldn’t listen to customers. The hard sell didn’t work. That’s where my initial failures were. I learned that I need to do consultative sales rather than hard pitches. The best selling happens when you are simply matching a potential capability with a clearly stated customer requirement. The selling should be almost invisible with that type of approach.
Jayna: What are some of the sales challenges you encounter at Gryphon?
Jeff: We talk to companies with 1,000 to 2,000 reps or more, and essentially say hey, we know you’ve been doing this for 30 years, but this is why you need activity data. Managers say, “Wow, I didn’t know it existed!” But then they think, wait, that’s not how we manage our teams today. It’s challenging to show accomplished sales leaders that they need new data and possibly a new approach to stay competitive. But when I show these leaders how that data that they have lived without forever will help them cut training and onboarding costs, and help them convert marketing leads better and reduce customer churn, they’re more interested. We have to show the ROI to overcome resistance, and we are fortunate to have a rock-solid ROI that is built on reality, not just marketing fluff.
Jayna: What do you believe that most businesspeople would consider “crazy”?
Jeff: I think people overestimate social media. I don’t see sellers getting the claimed ROI, and nothing of value is sold without a call. Social media won’t close sales for you. People still like the human touch and if you are looking to cut through the noise of your competition, social media isn’t going to do that. A well-planned and executed phone call by a professional is much more effective.
To find more tips, strategies and insights from Jeff, check out his column at http://www.entrepreneur.com/author/jeffrey-fotta2
