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Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh On Google, Snapchat, Burning Man And More

This article is more than 9 years old.

If Apple hadn't already called dibs on "Think Different," it might have made a pretty good motto for Tony Hsieh and the company he runs, Zappos. Whatever the area of life in question -- money, relationships, drug use, poker -- Hsieh seems to have an abstruse bit of social science or personal philosophy to guide him.

Hsieh's offbeat worldview is on full display in a massive interview conducted by journalist David Hochman for the May issue of Playboy. (I conducted the Playboy Interview with another visionary tech CEO, Gawker Media's Nick Denton, in the March issue.) He tells Hochman that he spends less than five minutes a year with his boss, Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos; that going to all-night raves helped him learn to commune with humanity's hive mind; and that it's better to start a business than go to college, although Hsieh himself has a degree from Harvard.

The full interview is on Playboy's website. Below, some highlights.

Hsieh on the power of Google and other tech companies:

Google is interesting because it's a monopoly, but ultimately it’s just a brand. I don't think we’ll always live in a world run by Google. The amount of time it takes to build a brand and reach a lot of people keeps compressing. At some point, someone else will come along and be the new Google or Facebook or Twitter. We just don’t know what those things are yet. I can’t even keep up with all the new social media stuff, but I’m already hearing kids in high school comment that Twitter is for old people. We already know the next generation doesn’t care about e-mail. People forget how early on things are in terms of digital technology. Everyone thinks it’s been around forever, but it’s been only a couple of decades.

On Snapchat:

They turned down $3 billion from Facebook. I just wonder how they pay their bills and what their business model is. I'm not saying they don't have one. I just can't imagine what it is.

On the Downtown Project, his $350 million urban renewal project in Las Vegas:

Our goal is to help make downtown Vegas a place of inspiration, creativity, entrepreneurship, innovation, discovery and upward mobility.  Over time I hope we can expand our scope, but right now we’re focused on helping accelerate the number of people from the creative class and entrepreneurs on both the small-business side and technology side to this area.  What we’re trying to do is the TED conference meets SXSW meeting Burning Man.

On what it means that he's trying to reorganize Zappos as a "holacracy":

Most companies are organized from high to low, where a boss commands people, whereas a holacracy operates more like an urban environment and less like a bureaucratic institution.  Everyone is together, and yet they don’t order each other around.  In a pure holacracy, you do away with all job titles, managers and levels.

On finding off-label uses for Zappos' amazing customer service:

I'll call Zappos sometimes if I need an answer for something. If I'm with a bunch of friends at a bar and there's a question we can't answer, we'll call Zappos and ask. I shouldn't tell people that, but it's true. If you're looking for a great pizza place near you or want to know how many seats are in the theater you happen to be walking past, maybe give Zappos a call.

On the lessons of poker for businesspeople:

Don’t play if you don’t understand it.  If you’re not winning at your table, you have to think about switching to another table.  If there are too many competitors, even if you’re good, success is going to be harder.  Don’t cheat.  Be patient.  Be humble.  Be nice.  Be prepared for the worst.  And the guy who wins the most hands isn’t the guy who makes the most money in the end.  Also, have fun.  You don’t want to be up all night worrying.

Correction: An earlier version of this post identified Hsieh as the founder of Zappos. He is CEO and was an early investor.