Individuals and companies able to be trustworthy are obviously more successful than those who can not. The acknowledgement of the importance of trust is increasing, and one reason is Mrs. Barbara Kimmel. Barbara heads the organization "Trust Across America and publishes the magazine "Trust! Magazine."
I have interviewed Barbara exclusively for FORBES.
Barbara Kimmel is an award-winning communications executive and former consultant to McKinsey who runs her own firm, Next Decade, Inc., which has been unraveling and simplifying complex subjects for over twenty years. During this time she has published award- winning reference books; created media campaigns; publicized books, authors and businesses; and consulted to start-ups on building marketing and communications programs. She holds a BA in International Affairs from Lafayette College and an MBA in Marketing from Baruch. In 2012 Barbara was named one of 25 Women Who are Changing the World by Good Business International.
Keld Jensen: What would be the questions concerning trust that nobody ever asked you and you would like to answer?
Barbara Kimmel: Gee Keld, this reminds me of an extra-credit question on a really difficult test. I’ll name a few questions I’d like to be asked, but have yet to come my way:
- What role can I play in elevating societal trust?
- Do you think I am part of the problem or part of the solution?
- What happens when I don’t walk my talk?
- How did I get to be perceived as so untrustworthy?
- Can you explain the difference between trust, ethics and compliance?
- If I “bank” trust can I be assured less crises?
- What do you mean I can’t delegate trust messaging to my communications and marketing department?
As a former CEO said to me in a recent conversation, 'Trust, that’s a cool word. I never thought about it.'
Jensen: Jack Welch recently said that the only thing an executive today should be focused on is trust. Why do you think Mr. Welch have arrived at that conclusion in 2015?
Kimmel: Occasionally I speak with a certain “segment” of retired CEOs who voice the same feelings after their pockets have been lined with gold, and they no longer need to (re)engineer their quarterly earnings! Maybe Jack has had an epiphany or saw the 'ghost of Christmas past.' Or maybe he (and other former CEOs like him) are considering the possibility that Milton Friedman’s model, of which Jack Welch was a champion, was either misinterpreted from the beginning or simply is no longer working.
Jensen: Do you believe that both an individual and a company can capitalize on trust and if yes how?
Kimmel: Trust is a 'top down' strategy so first, the Board and the CEO must embrace the concept that trustworthy organizations do not sacrifice profitability, in fact, quite the opposite. Then the Board and CEO must formulate a strategy and take deliberate action to create long-term trust with ALL stakeholders that will survive long past the short tenure of the current CEO. If you are interested in reading more on how long-term trust improves the bottom line, visit the Return on Trust link on our website.
Jensen: How do you try personally to “walk the talk” and create more trust in the world?
Kimmel: Well first, I will never win any awards for diplomacy, but I also don’t want to be viewed as the trust police. While I’ve been known to “call out” those who don’t walk their talk, there’s rarely a day that goes by without my having a conversation about trust with a family member, friend, colleague or via the global social networks and connections I have made. Based on the increasing number of visitors to our website, perhaps the strategy is working.David Brooks wrote a recent article called Goodness and Power. While the focus is on politicians, this paragraph hit home.People with astute moral sentiments have an early warning system. They don’t have to think through the dangers of tit-for-tat favor-exchanges with billionaires. They have an aesthetic revulsion against people who seem icky and situations that are distasteful, which heads off a lot of trouble.Suffice it to say, I’ve always steered clear of icky people and try to live according to a simple trust model I developed called VIP Leadership- Values, Integrity and Promises kept.
Jensen: What is the worst “lack” of trust you have experienced in your life?
Kimmel: That award would easily go to a lawyer who was my first boss out of college. He didn’t have a single leadership quality and did everything wrong. Lied, cheated, stole. He was also a master of name-calling, and had several ex-wives. Having had no prior work experience to speak of, I assumed all companies were run the same way. The silver lining was that I swore I would never work for anyone again, and I never have!
Jensen: What is the best example of great trust you have experienced in your life?
Kimmel: That’s a timely question. A week before a scheduled family trip to Barcelona, the rogue pilot crashed his plane into the mountains after taking off from Barcelona Airport. We place great trust in pilots every time we board a plane. It’s hard to find many 'blind trust' situations, and maybe for good reason.
Jensen: Are your kids trusting and trustworthy?
Kimmel: I would say that my professional work has created a bit of a double-edged sword for my kids. They are trusting in so far as they know I always put their well-being before my own, but they have learned to “trust but verify” with others outside the family, probably more than their peers do. As far as “trustworthy” I would definitely place them on the right side of the bell curve. Now if they could just remember to shut the garage and lock the doors when they come home at night!I’m a firm believer in the “apple doesn’t fall far from the tree” theory, and frequently remind my kids to look at their friend’s parents as a good gauge of the trustworthiness of their offspring.Last year I had an opportunity to talk to a large group of very bright college students about the importance of trust, using news-making trust breaches as the basis for the talk. Among my takeaways was that this next generation might just be a bit too tolerant of trust violations and too accepting and forgiving of “it’s just the way things are.
Jensen: In my work – I preach trust and openness – the threat in negotiation however is that one could become naive. How do you see the balance between being open and trusting and becoming naive?
Kimmel: My friend Bob Easton who is a Senior Managing Director at Accenture has modified the adage “trust but verify” by coining a term called Appreciative Trusting, defined as“the intentional and deliberate use of trust to the limits of prudence.” I think this is a great way to balance trust and naivety.
Jensen: Do you find some countries to be more trustworthy than others and if yes – which countries?
Kimmel: This is not my area of expertise. The PR firm Edelman covers this in their annual public opinion poll called the Trust Barometer. But it is a qualitative survey at best. The World Value Survey also provides some interesting data. We run a membership program for global trust experts and currently have ten countries represented. After getting to know many of our international members, my anecdotal experience is the US is lagging far behind many other countries when it comes to trust. According to a few recent conversations, Estonia ranks very high. Not sure why, and I haven’t found the source.
Jensen: What is describing a company that is successful through “trust”?
Kimmel: We began to construct a model back in 2008 that has evolved into what we call our FACTS® Framework. As far as I know, it’s the only quantitative assessment of the trustworthiness of US public companies based on 5 equally weighted indicators. Somehow, maybe naively, we believe that if we can continue to make the business case for trust (through a quantitative assessment) and by benchmarking against the S&P, 'evolved' CEOs will wake up and begin to pay attention.
Jensen: Studies show that trust has dropped in the Western world in the last 20 years. Is that your experience and if yes why is that the case?
Kimmel: Many trust studies are flawed by their lack of clarity. They confuse terms like trust, trusting, trustworthiness, propensity to trust, individual vs. institutional trust, etc. What we have learned is that industry is not destiny. For example, contrary to popular belief, there are actually some very trustworthy financial institutions, but yet we hear that “trust in financial services” continues to decline year over year, based on qualitative opinion polls. So when a study says that trust has dropped in the Western world, what does that actually mean? I’ve often considered the possibility that the world doesn’t have a crisis of trust, but rather a lack of ethical leaders who have killed trust in their respective functions- business, academia, sports, government, media, etc.
Jensen: I have at several occasions had the opportunity to talk to governmental members of parliament and politicians and often asked them why trust is declining and what they from a leadership point of view would like to do about it. More often than not they looked surprised at me and don’t understand the question. Why do you find that role models in society and politicians are unconsciously incompetent and don’t even understand there is a problem?
Kimmel: For two reasons. First, trust is taken for granted rather than given consideration as an organizational imperative. Second, many leaders are suffering from the “better than average effect,” a phrase coined by Duke University Professor Mark R. Leary and described in detail in this Psychology Today article written by one of our Trust Alliance members, Nan Russell.
Jensen: Heading the Trust organization what kind of impact are you hoping to make in the world?
Kimmel: Our mission is to help organizations build trust. We want to refocus attention away from the “worst offenders” that the media loves to talk about, to the best in breed. We want to show the world that being a trustworthy individual, a trustworthy leader, or a trustworthy organization is a better way to be. Last year we had over 1 million page views on our website. That’s sufficient proof that our work is making an impact.
Jensen: Where is trust 10 years from now?
Kimmel: I think it depends on whom you are asking and what exactly you are trying to measure. While the General Social Survey points to a continuous decline in trust, this Washington Post article has a different perspective. It was Justice Louis Brandeis that said “Sunshine is the best disinfectant” and it’s just possible that as the world gets smaller through more forced transparency, both individuals and institutions will need to adapt accordingly.
